Let's talk about foiling

[john m]

8.2m Flyer 8 knotts 100kg 160l/ 86cm x 213cm slingshot levitator double track/I76
7.0m Flyer 10 knotts100 kg 160l/86cm x 213cm slingshot levitator double track/I76
6.2 Revo 15 knotts 100kg 160l/86cm x 213cm slingshot levitator double track/I76
5.7m Revo 20 knotts 100kg 160l/86cm x 213cm slingshot levitator double track/I76
B position, mast all the way at back of double track, universal at middle, footstraps outer and most forward.
Have not used my 84 wing yet

[shmish]

Some good deals at Sailworks right now. All carbon AFS-85 is $999.99 US and an all carbon Moses 85 is $1449.99 US. I'm tempted but a) I've never tried wind foiling and b) I just don't get the front wings they put on these foils.
https://www.sailworks.com/the-gear/foiling/windfoils.html

A couple of thoughts, keeping in mind a) above.

The AFS-85 comes with their F-700a wing. I don't see why anyone would want this wing instead of the F-800. It looks to me that the F-800 does pretty much everything the F-700a does with being more light-wind friendly. If I bought the AFS-85, I'd also get the F-800 and then do what with the F-700a? Keep it as a spare? Seems wasteful. See this chart for info on the AFS wings: https://www.sailworks.com/documents/AFS_Windfoil_Wing_Compatibility_Comparison_Chart.pdf

The Moses has a similar issue with me too, I think. It comes with their 683 wing but I'd want the 790. If the charts are to be believed, at least there is some clear separation on uses and conditions for these two wings. Chart for info on Moses wings: https://www.sailworks.com/documents/Moses_Windfoil_Wing_Compatibility_Comparison_Chart.pdf

[telus022420]

Survey results:

Infinity 65, 30-35 knots, 3.7M, 80Kg, SS Freestyle, 87L-69x172, Azymuth
Infinity 65, 30-35 knots, 3.7M, 80Kg, SS Wizard, 105L-76x178, Azymuth
Timecode 68, 25-? knots, 4.2M, 65Kg, SS Wizard, 105L-76x178, CAN17
Timecode 68, 30-35 knots, 3.7M, 80Kg, SS Freestyle, 87L-69x172, Azymuth
Timecode 68, 30-35 knots, 3.7M, 80Kg, SS Wizard, 105L-76x178, Azymuth
Infinity 76, 5-? knots, 5.9M, Kg, SS Wizard, 125L-79x178, keith stark
Infinity 76, 5-8 knots, 7.8M, 65Kg, NP One Convertible, 134L-80x134, CAN17
Infinity 76, 5-8 knots, 7.8M, 65Kg, JP Hydrofoil, 135L-85x214, CAN17
Infinity 76, 8-10 knots, 6.5M, 80Kg, SS Wizard, 105L-76x178, Azymuth
Infinity 76, 8-? knots, 8.2M, 100Kg, SS Levitator, 160L-86x213, Johnm
Infinity 76, 10-20 knots, 5.3M, 69Kg, SS Wizard, 105L-76x178, Sambucabarnes
Infinity 76, 10-16 knots, 6.6M, 71Kg, SS Dialer, 130L-70x229, andy winky
Infinity 76, 10-? knots, 7M, 100Kg, SS Levitator, 160L-86x213, Johnm
Infinity 76, 12-20 knots, 4M, 90Kg, SS Wizard, 125L-79x178, Sunsetsailboards
Infinity 76, 14-? knots, 6.2M, 100Kg, SS Levitator, 160L-86x213, Johnm
Infinity 76, 18-25 knots, 4.2M, 65Kg, NP One Convertible, 134L-80x134, CAN17
Infinity 76, 18-25 knots, 4.2M, 65Kg, JP Hydrofoil, 135L-85x214, CAN17
Infinity 76, 20-20-Plus knots, 4M, 69Kg, SS Wizard, 105L-76x178, Sambucabarnes
Infinity 76, 20-? knots, 5.7M, 100Kg, SS Levitator, 160L-86x213, Johnm
Infinity 76, ? ? knots, 4.2M, 90Kg, SS Freestyle, 115L-71x188, Jameos
Infinity 76, ? ? knots, 5.4M, 90Kg, SS Freestyle, 115L-71x188, Jameos
Infinity 84, 5-10 knots, 7.8M, 92Kg, JP Hydrofoil, 135L-86x215, Texas foiling
Infinity 84, 5-8 knots, 8M, ?Kg, JP Hydrofoil, 155L-90x220, liquidsl55
Infinity 84, 5-15 knots, 9.6M, 85Kg, Exocet RF 91, 160L-91x230, Oscardog
Infinity 84, 8-10 knots, 6.5M, 80Kg, SS Wizard, 105L-76x178, Azymuth
Infinity 84, 9-16 knots, 5M, 92Kg, JP Hydrofoil, 135L-86x215, Texas foiling
Infinity 84, 10-? knots, 8.5M, 80Kg, SB Formula, 160L-100x210, WillyWind
Infinity 84, 10-20 knots, 7.5M, 85Kg, Exocet RF 91, 160L-91x230, Oscardog
Infinity 84, 10-20 knots, 7M, 85Kg, Exocet RF 91, 160L-91x230, Oscardog
Infinity 84, 11-17 knots, 6.5M, 90Kg, Slalom, 117L-71x?, Boardsurfr
Infinity 84, 12-18 knots, 6.5M, 83Kg, SS Wizard, 125L-79x198, Windbot/Adam2
Infinity 84, 12-18 knots, 6.4M, 100Kg, Old Formula, ?L-95x?, Awalkspoiled
Infinity 84, 12-? knots, 5.1M, 100Kg, Old Formula, ?L-95x?, Awalkspoiled
Infinity 84, 13-20 knots, 5.6M, 90Kg, Slalom, 117L-71x?, Boardsurfr
Infinity 84, 14-20 knots, 5.8M, 100Kg, Old Formula, ?L-95x?, Awalkspoiled
Infinity 84, 15-23 knots, 5M, 83Kg, SS Wizard, 125L-79x198, Windbot/Adam2
Infinity 84, 15-20 knots, 5.7M, 85Kg, Exocet RF 91, 160L-91x230, Oscardog
Infinity 84, 15-20-Plus knots, 5M, 90Kg, Formula, ?L- ?x?, Boardsurfr
Infinity 84, 18-20 knots, 3.7M, 73Kg, SB Go, 122L-72x246, JonathanP
Infinity 84, ? 30 knots, 4.2M, 80Kg, SB Formula, 161L-100x210, WillyWind
Infinity 99, 5-10 knots, 8M, ?Kg, JP Hydrofoil, 155L-90x220, liquidsl55
Infinity 99, 7-10 knots, 5.8M, 92Kg, SS Wizard, 125L-79x198, Coreadventuresports

[adam2]

Shmish where and when do you plan to do most of your riding. I took a Sailworks demo rig with a 5.0 Flyer and a 790 out for an evening spin at the event site in about 15-18mph and absolutely loved it. Back here I ride an Infinity 84 at Jericho where I need all the lift I can get most days at 185lbs. Prior to Covid my schedule would decide for me when I could foil, not the wind. I could see the 790 being great for Squamish and whitecapping Jericho days. I know it's Slingy equivalent, the i76 is the freeride choice for many in the Gorge. Personally I would find anything smaller than 1500cm of surface area frustrating locally on all but the best days. I suspect the small wings are on sale at Sailworks as they simply aren't as popular as the playful 790 for average Joe freeriding.

[telus022420]

For light wind sailing there's also Moses 873 @ 2100cm and the SS Inifinity 99 @ 2371.

[JonathanP]

Missed the survey, but I'm 160lbs, use the SS infinity 84 on a starboard go ~122l poweplate almost all the way forward and a liquid force 90cm mast. For Squamish 18-20knts I use an old North 3.7, then have sailworks 4.0,4.6,5.4 but try to stick with the 3.7 and pump up on the foil.

[shmish]

Shmish where and when do you plan to do most of your riding. I took a Sailworks demo rig with a 5.0 Flyer and a 790 out for an evening spin at the event site in about 15-18mph and absolutely loved it. Back here I ride an Infinity 84 at Jericho where I need all the lift I can get most days at 185lbs. Prior to Covid my schedule would decide for me when I could foil, not the wind. I could see the 790 being great for Squamish and whitecapping Jericho days. I know it's Slingy equivalent, the i76 is the freeride choice for many in the Gorge. Personally I would find anything smaller than 1500cm of surface area frustrating locally on all but the best days. I suspect the small wings are on sale at Sailworks as they simply aren't as popular as the playful 790 for average Joe freeriding.

I'm a bit under 150lbs so I was guessing that the 790 would work for me at Jericho on lightwind days. I can see why Sailworks has these on sale, I just don't understand why the manufacturer packages them the way that they do, particularly the AFS-85.

[adam2]

Yes the 790 would likely be a good lightwind Jericho foil for you. I recall it also feeling quite a bit faster than the Infinity 84, but equally pitch stable .

[Mike]

Back here I ride an Infinity 84 at Jericho where I need all the lift I can get most days at 185lbs. Prior to Covid my schedule would decide for me when I could foil, not the wind.

Hi Adam. So looking at the survey, it seems you use Infinity 84, wizard 125 & 6.5 for the typical light wind Jericho day. I seem to think it's common for Jericho to be at the 10 knot level in summer. In years past only formula could make fun of this (I never went formula). So you would say your rig matches formula and works @ this "classic light wind Jericho level?"

Also, what sort of physical work out is windfoiling? (I suspect low) At Squamish I found myself getting cold kite foiling from lack of firing up the metabolism.

Thanks - just exploring my options for future given the sketchy future of Squamish.

[adam2]

Hi Mike,

Yes the 84cm wing and 6.5 has been my primary setup for Jericho. That said though, I have moved to a 7.3 RAF Naish Sprint as my big sail to get a bit more low end, but I only have maybe three sessions on it. I can't say the extra 0.8m of sail adds too much to the low end, but it certainly feels way bigger and heavier. I'm probably just as efficient with the 6.5 pumping hard than I am with the 7.3 that's harder to pump. Time will tell, but so far I've noticed a law of diminishing returns with the bigger sail. If I see the Jericho meter at a steady 10 knots I'd probably pass on sailing that day, but if I see it showing 8 gusting to 12, it's worth getting on the water, as those gusts will get me up and carry me through the lulls. The kiters on the ram air kites definitely get flying earlier than me, but when it shuts off I enjoy a leisurely schlog home instead of a kite swim. I can't get out every day when there's a breeze at Jericho, but I've seen spans of sailable days that last a week or longer in the spring, if only for an hour or two. As Squamish isn't hasn't been an option for me these last couple years, foiling has been a life saver, especially in the summer and with the kiting beach closures. After work flatwater sessions at Jericho are the best.

Effort level is low when windfoiling compared to fin sailing or even kitefoiling. It's weird, because it requires more attention to board and sail trim when wfoiling vs fin sailing, but at the same time is more relaxing because it's impact free and once up I'm not always hunting for gusts upwind, I just know I'll keep flying in the lulls. I have heard kitefoilers complain about getting colder kitefoiling than regular kiting, I was never good enough kitefoiling to notice it, but I haven't noticed this effect with windfoiling and I'm normally out of the water for long periods.

Windfoiling is way less of a workout than windsurfing, it may be similar to kiting which I find is kind of like sitting on a couch when freeriding. I spend all my time in my harness when windfoiling, except when I'm overpowered and need to manage gusts, this probably sounds counterintuitive coming from windsurfing. If you were half proficient at kitefoiling (waaaay harder than windfoiling) and windsurfing, which I'm sure you are, you'll find windfoiling super easy to pickup up, but also super fun with lots of challenges to keep you stoked. Remember when you started kitefoiling it was like swimming with your kite and ironing board? Windfoiling is just like learning to slalom sail, just uphaul and go 'til you fall off then repeat.

I can't comment on foiling vs. formula as I've never formula sailed, but I recall one day last spring Igor was absolutely ripping in lightwind on big formula gear, probably a 9 meter sail or bigger and I was on my 6.5 nicely powered. He was way faster than me but we were both planing/flying most of the time getting great rides. I hope this helps!