Let's talk about foiling
Michael what board are you riding with the foil?
- BigD
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:20 am
BigD wrote:Michael what board are you riding with the foil?
Hey Dallas, I'm on my Starboard Hypernut 4in1 SUP. 7'4" 106L. It has a few footstrap inserts in the centre of the board which is nice.
- Michael
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:31 pm
My quest to find the right foil has (I think) arrived at it's finish for now.
I started with the original H2 Slingshot. Added the Infinity 76cm wing and although it was an upgrade I wasn't terribly thrilled with the construction or adjustabiity. I prefered the C position on my board but it really needed to be somewhere between B and C, like a B sharp for the music fans.
Then I grabbed a Starboard Team Set and although the quality was outstanding I just couldn't totally enjoy the locked in feeling. Plus my board and sails are really focused around carving swell in medium wind rather than chasing VMG in super light wind (fringe benefit of relocating back to Victoria, BC).
Fortunately the used market for Race Foils was strong enough that having it for just two weeks didn't cost me anything.
So then finally a used SuperCruiser was found at a really decent price. This particular one is the larger 1700cm2 model. Last night was my first opportunity to get it flying, I was well powered with a 5.2 4 batten wave sail for almost 3 hours.
Compared to the I76 in C position the wing is further back, the stabilizer is much larger and the fuselage is similar in length to Slingshot. A lot like running the I76 in B position.
It's been my observation that Starboard do this combination of a more rearward wing with a very large stabilizer for the foils they intend to be comfortable on a beam reach (Freeride and Race 75cm for example).
There were times I couldn't tell a difference from the I76. This was steady state cruising with decent power.
So lets focus on what is different using the I76 as a baseline:
Biggest difference was significantly more pitch stability, no surprise with the long fuselage and huge stabilizer. This means it feels a bit sticky getting off the water and also responds to foot and sail pressure slower. You can sort of pop the I76 off at very low speed with a touch of back foot then pump it downward to gain speed, I haven't figured that out with the SC yet. Heading down a wave I got caught out a few times not getting the nose down fast enough.
This stability could be why the FoilX boards can run the mast track so far back, I'll need to try the mast track extender I built.
On the flip side that leads me into my second point: it feels significantly more efficient, especially at low speed. This was really noticeable when pumping and coming out of gybes. It responds better to sail pumping and picks up speed faster.
That could be a result of the more streamlined fuselage, the wing is also slightly thinner and higher aspect.
I had the stab set for a bit more nose up than neutral but it was still a little more back footed then I'd like. I'll try moving things around to see if I can get that balanced closer to what I'd like.
Speaking of moving things around. It seems that Starboard have designed their own version of the Slingshot switch fuselage:
You can mount the wing further forward using a second set of screw positions. This has been mentioned online and I know Darius uses it with his Ocean 2000 wing.
I was intially hesitant to try it since I figured the wing would need all of the fuselage engaged for maximum support. However doing some measurements with pictures online it appears the new Quick Lock Surf fuselage extends only as deep into the wing socket as the SuperCruiser in the forward position.
With that knowledge I feel confident trying this new configuration and I'm very curious how it would respond to the smaller 270cm2 Surf stabilizer. This would be closer to a semi-race kind of a set-up.
I started with the original H2 Slingshot. Added the Infinity 76cm wing and although it was an upgrade I wasn't terribly thrilled with the construction or adjustabiity. I prefered the C position on my board but it really needed to be somewhere between B and C, like a B sharp for the music fans.
Then I grabbed a Starboard Team Set and although the quality was outstanding I just couldn't totally enjoy the locked in feeling. Plus my board and sails are really focused around carving swell in medium wind rather than chasing VMG in super light wind (fringe benefit of relocating back to Victoria, BC).
Fortunately the used market for Race Foils was strong enough that having it for just two weeks didn't cost me anything.
So then finally a used SuperCruiser was found at a really decent price. This particular one is the larger 1700cm2 model. Last night was my first opportunity to get it flying, I was well powered with a 5.2 4 batten wave sail for almost 3 hours.
Compared to the I76 in C position the wing is further back, the stabilizer is much larger and the fuselage is similar in length to Slingshot. A lot like running the I76 in B position.
It's been my observation that Starboard do this combination of a more rearward wing with a very large stabilizer for the foils they intend to be comfortable on a beam reach (Freeride and Race 75cm for example).
There were times I couldn't tell a difference from the I76. This was steady state cruising with decent power.
So lets focus on what is different using the I76 as a baseline:
Biggest difference was significantly more pitch stability, no surprise with the long fuselage and huge stabilizer. This means it feels a bit sticky getting off the water and also responds to foot and sail pressure slower. You can sort of pop the I76 off at very low speed with a touch of back foot then pump it downward to gain speed, I haven't figured that out with the SC yet. Heading down a wave I got caught out a few times not getting the nose down fast enough.
This stability could be why the FoilX boards can run the mast track so far back, I'll need to try the mast track extender I built.
On the flip side that leads me into my second point: it feels significantly more efficient, especially at low speed. This was really noticeable when pumping and coming out of gybes. It responds better to sail pumping and picks up speed faster.
That could be a result of the more streamlined fuselage, the wing is also slightly thinner and higher aspect.
I had the stab set for a bit more nose up than neutral but it was still a little more back footed then I'd like. I'll try moving things around to see if I can get that balanced closer to what I'd like.
Speaking of moving things around. It seems that Starboard have designed their own version of the Slingshot switch fuselage:
You can mount the wing further forward using a second set of screw positions. This has been mentioned online and I know Darius uses it with his Ocean 2000 wing.
I was intially hesitant to try it since I figured the wing would need all of the fuselage engaged for maximum support. However doing some measurements with pictures online it appears the new Quick Lock Surf fuselage extends only as deep into the wing socket as the SuperCruiser in the forward position.
With that knowledge I feel confident trying this new configuration and I'm very curious how it would respond to the smaller 270cm2 Surf stabilizer. This would be closer to a semi-race kind of a set-up.
- grantmac
- Posts: 429
- Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:53 pm
Michael wrote:Hey Dallas, I'm on my Starboard Hypernut 4in1 SUP. 7'4" 106L. It has a few footstrap inserts in the centre of the board which is nice.
May I ask what model year your Hypernut is? I have a 2018 that I bought used and I am wondering about the angle of the foil mast to the board. In your photo the nose of your board looks quite high, like mine... I made a shim for my tuttle box to bring the nose down, although I realize this might have negative effects on strength... looking at other options like casting a new plastic head on the top of my aluminum foil mast.
- themorb
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:14 pm
themorb wrote:Michael wrote:Hey Dallas, I'm on my Starboard Hypernut 4in1 SUP. 7'4" 106L. It has a few footstrap inserts in the centre of the board which is nice.
May I ask what model year your Hypernut is? I have a 2018 that I bought used and I am wondering about the angle of the foil mast to the board. In your photo the nose of your board looks quite high, like mine... I made a shim for my tuttle box to bring the nose down, although I realize this might have negative effects on strength... looking at other options like casting a new plastic head on the top of my aluminum foil mast.
Hey Morb, I think mine is a 2018 as well.
- Michael
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:31 pm
I realize most Vancouver readers would not consider Harrison because of the distance, but just in case... It's been an unusual year and I've been trying to re-figure out Harrison. Forecast indicators where good yesterday but my observations (iwindsurf) have not seen consistent results. Pulled the trigger yesterday as I also saw wind. I've left Maple Ridge @ noon. Arrived abit after 1pm. Wind dropped so rigged 5.3 (& 76 infinity wing this time). Overpowered so down to 4.5. Still lit up but I think this is me having to "feel the fear and do it anyways." The speed feels impressive but I think it's more about learning control. Started to "stretch out and open up" some of the time. Judging by the water texture I think the wind graph is reasonable. Not sure if wind graph is in same place as several years ago, but several years ago this would have probably been good 8.0 on 135L Board conditions. Although learning and new to foil, my sense is, feeling on 4.5 and foil is quite abit > 8.0 and 135L freeride board.
Today has a similar or better forecast (to my eye) than yesterday. There seems to be some variable I can't detect so we'll see if the wind happens or not again today. Presently is 12g15.
Today has a similar or better forecast (to my eye) than yesterday. There seems to be some variable I can't detect so we'll see if the wind happens or not again today. Presently is 12g15.
- July 11 Harrison in mph
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- Mike
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:30 am
Hi Mike,
WindGuru GFS says 5 knots today. What other tools do you use for indicators? Weather in Lytton and Lillooet looks pretty bad today.
I took out a 3 month subscription to predictwind but it doesn't seem to cover Harrison (and I also think it's been pretty poor with Howe Sound).
Nexen is working out as a good place to foil but I'm not sure it's going to see any wind today?
Doug
WindGuru GFS says 5 knots today. What other tools do you use for indicators? Weather in Lytton and Lillooet looks pretty bad today.
I took out a 3 month subscription to predictwind but it doesn't seem to cover Harrison (and I also think it's been pretty poor with Howe Sound).
Nexen is working out as a good place to foil but I'm not sure it's going to see any wind today?
Doug
- shmish
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:52 pm
Hi Doug,
It's reading 17g22 at Harrison right now. That's strong for Harrison. I haven't foiled on 3.7 yet but that's what I likely would be on. No garentee but I think it will last. My back's a bit sore so I'm not gone to follow my past patterns and will strive to take today off. There will likely be a small group of locals there including wind foilers.
It's reading 17g22 at Harrison right now. That's strong for Harrison. I haven't foiled on 3.7 yet but that's what I likely would be on. No garentee but I think it will last. My back's a bit sore so I'm not gone to follow my past patterns and will strive to take today off. There will likely be a small group of locals there including wind foilers.
- Mike
- Posts: 831
- Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:30 am
Is there a place to stay in Harrison with a 10 foot camper trailer (overnight) that doesn't cost much? Off-road truck is in the USA right now, so I only have a sedan to tow. Can't be off the beaten path. Thanks.
- ZeroR2
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:40 pm
Had a great strapless foil session yesterday on the Okanagan lake. Super fun and lots of control in the gusts.
Not sure if it's because I'm using a SUP, 7'4" hypernut but I loved the surfy feel. Got in some nice S turns but went too far down wind on one and crashed. A few jibes but still can't foil out of them.
Not sure if it's because I'm using a SUP, 7'4" hypernut but I loved the surfy feel. Got in some nice S turns but went too far down wind on one and crashed. A few jibes but still can't foil out of them.
- Michael
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:31 pm